How little is too little?

[Consideringotheroptions]

Greetings All,

At this point in the job season I'm confronted with a tricky question, and one which many in the profession appear to want to avoid (perhaps to maintain our distance from the Sophists): how much should we be paid for our work? Specifically, how little is too little, not from an economic perspective (there will always be someone who thinks they can make ends meet on $30k), but as a matter of respect for the profession and training it requires.

I ask in the interest of drumming up some reflections, as I have heard of offers as low as $22k for a full time position (in an expensive area), and see that the JFP has some jobs listed for $30k and $36k. Those numbers all strike me as pathetically low given the time and education our profession requires. They are even more pathetic compared to the average starting salary of even middling college graduates.

Thoughts? How little would you be willing to accept? For me, it would have to be sufficient to support my family, which makes it that much more essential that the compensation be reasonable for a given geographical area.

Cheers,
Considering Other Options

[Mo Money Mo Problems]

Do a cost-of-living comparison first. A nice point of reference is New York City on the high end. So your 35k in Swamp-f**k, Oklahoma, may be the same as an 80k salary in NYC.

Try www.bestplaces.net/col/ just for fun.

[braaains]

Salaries vary. But you can find the averages here:

www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/04/14/aaup

How much is too little? Supply and demand currently favors employers over employees in academic hiring, I'm afraid.

[BigW]

but as a matter of respect for the profession and training it requires

Does this assume that pay is a sign of respect at all instead of something determined by altogether different factors? I'm not sure the connection is all that obvious. Aren't there plenty of occupations that are respected but still not well remunerated?

Anyway, I suspect you have a number in mind already -- care to share it?

[realist]

Apr 7, 2009 8:09:58 GMT -5 @Consideringotheroptions said:

how much should we be paid for our work? Specifically, how little is too little, not from an economic perspective ... but as a matter of respect for the profession and training it requires.

I ask in the interest of drumming up some reflections, as I have heard of offers as low as $22k for a full time position (in an expensive area), and see that the JFP has some jobs listed for $30k and $36k. Those numbers all strike me as pathetically low given the time and education our profession requires. They are even more pathetic compared to the average starting salary of even middling college graduates.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if your best offer is $22K, the invisible hand of the market is telling you that "the time and education" you've put in is worth $22K. The market is really good at evaluating the worth of commodities. If nobody is willing to voluntarily pay you more than $22K for your services, that's a really good indication that your services aren't worth more than $22K.

That's no indictment of philosophy, or of the objective worth of your abilities. It just means that, IN THIS MARKET, your services are worth $22K. And that's largely because people on the whole are into Hummers, flat screen TVs, soda, alcohol, sex, sporting events, romance novels, action movies, fried chicken, and shark documentaries on the Discovery Channel. People on the whole don't value critical thinking in general or philosophy in particular. It's difficult, disquieting, and people would rather pass the time trying to get balls into holes or trying to have orgasms (inclusive disjunction).

You're surrounded by these people, and they set the value of your services. I recommend taking the best offer you get, and thanking God that people will still pay ANYTHING for philosophy. There may come a day when our universities are totally converted into trade schools (it's happening already), and nobody will pay anything at all for philosophy.

[cml]

<i>I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if your best offer is $22K, the invisible hand of the market is telling you that "the time and education" you've put in is worth $22K. The market is really good at evaluating the worth of commodities. If nobody is willing to voluntarily pay you more than $22K for your services, that's a really good indication that your services aren't worth more than $22K.</i>

Second place prize is steak knives?

I think that's close to right but not quite right given the imperfections that exist in the hiring process (e.g., in our department the contingent faculty are out producing the tenured and tenure track folk this year). You could be making low 30's one year and more than twice than that the next.

I'm not sure that the numbers in the inside higher ed piece is accurate. Do those numbers represent the salaries of philosophers or academics? The numbers could skew high if people who work for business schools and science profs are included. I hope they skew high. Our school pays full time lecturers $32K per year and we don't get any sort of support for travel, supplies, computers, etc...

[braaaaains]

From Leiter Reports:

Average Faculty Salaries for 2005-06 (Leiter)

Via the Chronicle of Higher Education (subscription access only), covering 4-year institutions for the academic year 2005-06. The average full professor of philosophy (note: philosophy is lumped with religious studies) earned $82,030, compared to $76,413 for an English professor, $80,706 in History, and $84,059 in Mathematics. The average new Assistant Professor of Philosophy earned $46,780, compared to $45,882 in English, $45,723 in History, and $50,151 in Mathematics. Average salaries at the major research universities are, of course, higher (for example, the average salary of a full professor, across all fields, at a doctoral institution is over $100,000), but this data on averages across all four-year institutions probably gives a more realistic picture of compensation.

[improfound]

CML --

The AAUP numbers are averages across the entire university. So when the AAUP reports an average salary for an assistant professor at Indiana University, that average covers business, sciences, humanities, etc. It also covers first-year assistant profs and 5th year assistant profs. So a new philosophy professor will probably not be offered anything near the AAUP average.

Of course, if you teach at a small LAC without a B-school or law school, the AAUP average will more closely resemble the salary you can expect.

[Consideringotheroptions]

That's some really helpful market analysis, realist, so thanks for that...

To be clear, I have not been offered anything as low as $22k, but I know someone who has. Just because an offer like that exists, it does not mean that it's a relevant measure of the value of the job--people make low ball offers all the time hoping some dope will jump at the chance out of desperation. While one can almost always assume that there may be such a dope out there, it doesn't necessarily provide a reasonable measure for the remuneration one ought to receive.

My sense is that academics are lousy at negotiating, and it only takes a few like that to really sink things for the rest of us. But this conversation is probably pointless. I have my number--put me anywhere and I'll still be inclined not to consider anything below the $40k floor. I didn't take a vow of poverty when I headed down this path...

[Bob]

Certainly the biggest thing to take into consideration is not the actual salary but what that salary would get you. Stanford's IHUM fellows get $50,000 a year, which sounds like a decent deal. However, a quick cost of living comparison shows that a job most places that paid even $20,000 a year would be better from a financial standpoint. So, if you're offered a $30,000 job in Akron, Ohio, you're actually better off financially than those IHUM fellows. Certainly there may be other reasons at play, but in the discussion of salaries, it seems silly to make blanket statements of the sort that $30,000 is unacceptable.